Sin

Wow all good stuff to ponder, thats why I love this site.

Kim, my daughter does talk to animals. I will ask her what you asked, although he's only six so It may take her few understand. What I have heard from other animals communicators is that animals no of a higher sources. I went around and asked a bunch of livestock how they felt about being food for us and they all understood the order of life and accepted that that is why they were here, however none of them apprecaited how we treated them and the all wanted no part of the slaughter houses, they feel fear and pain but we had to go to their higher selves to get the answer as to why they came into this experiences. This is where we got the answers about a higher source. I also talked with a dog that had been human and animal depending on the lessons he learned. I dont believe that once your a human you stay. Again that's just my opinion.

A.T.
I dont want to lump Christians all together, its just what i have experienced. It is totally possible that I am biased. It could benefit me to look into why I am that way. I'd like to look into the NDE, maybe this this weekend.

[quote="AngelTony"]

indigogirl wrote:

Also, as you bring it up Kim, I had a NDE experience that lasted 3 days and during that time I was on the other side. I actually saw the kingdom of Heaven, and many many others facet’s of spirituality that make this website look like facebook. That is why I know that "Jesus will save me" I read IN-Between the lines with that vision in front of my face. God new that his son was a very simple plan for all of us. What you have got to realize is that God does NOT want puppet’s to follow him into that Heaven!!

That is just the coolest thing to read on this site. I LOVE hearing other ppl's NDE's. I think they are fascinating stories and so much to learn from them. Hearing other people NDE's have helped bring an entirely new perspective to everything I was taught growing up in the Catholic Church that I didn't understand. And I love hearing you say Jesus was meant to be a SIMPLE PLAN haha. So often I have thought, "gee maybe we are really over thinking the Jesus mystery into the ground" lol

You say you know "Jesus will save you" and I dont doubt it but wondering maybe you can share with us HOW is it that he can save us? Is the energy of simply believing in HIM or even jsut saying His name enough to rise us out of any despairing neg energy space we might find ourselves on the other side? If you can I'd like to know what you mean by this exactly.

indigogirl wrote:

I dont believe that once your a human you stay. Again that's just my opinion.

It was just something I had heard from a medium once, or maybe I read it somewhere. Cant remember. I do feel animals must know of some sort of higher source, dogs in particular becuase they go about knowing fully that they have this job to do, serving their masters.

I also think about Marbles last day. The morning before we had to put him down unexpectedly (it came very sudden) I remember letting him out in the morning. His breath was labored and he sat there in the woods in a ray of sunlight looking up and out into the woods, almost as if he knew what was coming and he was worshiping that last morning. I have tears typing this now because it was such a beautiful moment. I also can't but feel there was maybe an angel with him there, talking to him or smiling at him. Later that day i got the call his breathing problem got so bad we would have to put him down in the hour or he would suffocate in his own, which we didnt want. I held him as he passed over as I did not want him to be alone of scared in that moment. My entire spiritual awakening started in wake of this dogs death. HE was such and angel and in passing I could not believe the amount of love I had for this dog, the amount of love he brought to this world. I was so sad but so happy at the same time.
Ive had so many crazy paranormal type encounters with Spirit since then, which while sometimes scary, deeply thankful for it all especially for the learning its brought me
and all this I think I owe to the dog.,,,or at least some turning point of wisdom.insight gained in his passing. God bless'em beautiful creature.

My Dillinger awakened me as did your Marbles. They truly are wonderfully spiritual aren't they. I have heard many buddist say that once you incarnate into human you don't go back but I cant deny that I've heard from animals themselves that they've flip flopped back and forth. There are so many things I just dont' completely know about. I asked the other day, " If catholisim is the right way give me a sign" Well I got my sign but it wasn't that it was the right way. I just got confirmation that there are many many ways to be spiritual and that their is no " one right way"

indigogirl wrote:

There are so many things I just dont' completely know about. I asked the other day, " If catholisim is the right way give me a sign" Well I got my sign but it wasn't that it was the right way. I just got confirmation that there are many many ways to be spiritual and that their is no " one right way"

Yes, I believe this completely.

indigogirl wrote:

I dont believe that once your a human you stay. Again that's just my opinion.

It is true some eastern religions, notably Hinduism and Buddhism, believe a human being can reincarnate as an animal, depending on how s/he lived his/her life. Although I respect such religious belief systems, I have not yet come across hard proofs that that is the case.

Quote :

If catholisim is the right way give me a sign" Well I got my sign but it wasn't that it was the right way. I just got confirmation that there are many many ways to be spiritual and that their is no " one right way"

People can go looking for the right way! But not through religion such as Catholicism nor through religion science such as Evolution since science and religion affect our beliefs and views. Throughout man’s recorded history, there were periods of radical shifts in thinking and beliefs brought about by new discoveries, creating a great change and probably, development in our consciousness. But who, in the end, can tell whether something is right or wrong? Is it the scientist or the priest? Or is it the collective experience of the people that should be the final arbiter -- It is you who is the right way -- and there is no one right way, because people varies yet the right way cannot contradict itself.

Gellers pet wrote:

People can go looking for the right way! But not through religion such as Catholicism nor through religion science such as Evolution since science and religion affect our beliefs and views. Throughout man’s recorded history, there were periods of radical shifts in thinking and beliefs brought about by new discoveries, creating a great change and probably, development in our consciousness. But who, in the end, can tell whether something is right or wrong? Is it the scientist or the priest? Or is it the collective experience of the people that should be the final arbiter -- It is you who is the right way -- and there is no one right way, because people varies yet the right way cannot contradict itself.


******
You are right people get stressed out trying to find the one solitary truth. Many people try many things and many people find what they look for in them, yet others continue to search unsatisfied with what they have found.

I believe we all have different paths. Regarding sin, its hard not to talk about christianity with this topic as it is where it came from.. well the Jews anyway.

Not all will follow. some wil try and be unsatisfied that always saddens me but its how it is. finding that which is right for you is best, whatever brings joy to your every day. Following Jesus ways does that for me.

The Original Sin -

The moment where in Adam and Eve ate the fruit from the tree - which God has instructed t them not to do - from here was the birth of Sin.


　
　
thank you lynn, an awesome thread.

i just took a part of your origonal thread as above as that is the one point in time that we all inherit sin and wish to highlight upon it


now How do you do that?

how does one ACTUALLY inherit the origonal sin that happend to another two people many thousands of years ago?

unless its in our DNA? there is no direct contact with the very first ACT of defiance all that time ago that has caused each and everyone of us to inheriit its fruites......

it is but a sugestion, so i hold no claim to its authentisity, you can be the desider on that, this is just a few rambling thoughts on the subject..... ego is the divider, ego is the serpent that begiles us, we all inherit an ego at birth, a false identity that can and does make us do things on a whim,

be what it may the origonal sin was the mother of all other sins that followed, Abel and Cain was another one that is aparently the very first killing of a human being, its the timeless reason why cain killed abel, because he wanted abels woman, she refused his charms staying faithfull to abel, so how did cain know about lust? what about the feeling of rejection? and the ensuing anger and resentment it caused? where did the hate, strong enough to kill come from?...... Adam and Eve?

it really begs the question..... how does sin move from one person to another,, are we so guilty by assosiation with adam and eve that the origonal sin has not changed the way it acts upon us, it defys belief that within each of us there lies the inherent ability to be sinfull and that we are fully capable of killing without reservation or thought for it consequences, yet and yet......

we KNOW its wrong to do

it is almost like adam and eve were in PERFECT HARMONY in a PERFECT garden,,,, it was toooo perfect, they were in a perfect state of ignorance, hence the term,, ignorance is bliss, it is also termed,,, being blissfully unaware, basicly stagnation, there had to be an awareness of themselves for them to grow spiritually, the path back to liberation is a slow and often painfull one because the ego is allways in defiance of your attempts to reconnect to god,,,,, now just imagine doing that in a state of awareness, you become a living god with all its humbleness and love for life,

the introduction of sin changed ALL. there eyes were opend to all kinds of things including there own nakedness, so ego was allready beginning to divide and conquer the connection between god and man, it started to lable things as right...wrong, good....bad, in other words knowing that of good and evil, you become like a god when you have an ego that is contoled and no longer hankers for attention

i could write a ton more on this but im sure that lengthy posts can only relay so much before you cast your eyes on another so i will stop here


thank you

david

AngelTony wrote:

The Day of Atonement involves not only the forgiveness of sin; it pictures the removal of the primary cause of sin --> Satan and his demons. Until God removes the original instigator of sin, mankind will simply continue to fall back into disobedience and suffering. Although our human nature has a part to play in our sins, Satan the devil bears great responsibility for influencing mankind to disobey God.

I fully agree but too I feel that things work on a balance of Good and Bad . To me its like Day and Night there can not one without the other we need that balance to exist. I look to a World where we all understand the faiths and belief of other's where it all becomes teachings. I do not look to a World where though all live witout what one might see as "suffering" as really that is to me such a cultrual state of being. What would there to be learned if life was all GOOD. If we walked aroung never haveing a bad day or a struggle in life. BOARING I feel. I do not condone one's that have reeked havoc on the Earth but too I do not have it in me to condem them. Its all on that path of learning for what end purpose well only the Univeral Light knows of that, or were we finally go home to.

Satan (the fallen angel) is the author of sin

I guess having walked in those shoes some when I was yougner and understanding the GREAT powers that be there I can see it in a different light maybe. If there was no opposing force to God then where would we be ? What would we have learned ? Would we even BE ? The temptations were put there in the Garden of Eden to lay a foundation for man. ( if one follows that path of beleif )

I was given a message from Father Paul ( the one I channell whom dates to the very BIRTH of Chirstianity. I put it here as it speaks to the start of man.

{quote}
And God said: 'Let us make man in our image, after our likeness; and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.'
And God created man in His own image, in the image of God created He him; male and female created He them.
And God blessed them; and God said unto them: 'Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it; and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that creepeth upon the earth.' {quote}






Even though many people doubt the existence of a devil, the Bible reveals Satan as a powerful, invisible being who can sway all man-kind. From Revelations it tells us that his influence is so great that he "deceives the whole world." What can he possibly say to you that changes your mind and helps you deceive yourself.

Christ is the only answer (his sacrifice) to stop this evil angels power.

I am speaking on Easter Sunday in Church. WHILE the focus is from a Metaphtysical approach I am going to touch on the path that lead us to where we be. I look at the World and the struggles that there be, we are moving forward as we have not had another WORLD WAR but we are far from laying down the arms.

Jesus giving of his life changed much of the path man went on. TOOK the rule from what one might see as dictators in the Greek and Roman Emperors and gave more power to the individal man. Jesus too opened the World to much of the understandings we can have on a site like this. While I do not walk the Christian path in life I can embrace that path.

I have even been asked to write for a Christian Site and Church. Blessed to do so and down as "Guest Metaphysical Writter " so the World is changing and there is more and more understandings coming.



Lynn

kimcreative wrote:

AngelTony wrote:

Satan the devil bears great responsibility for influencing mankind to disobey God.

If there is a Satan, I do not hold him responsible for influencing or making my choices. I hold myself responsible for that. And if there is a Satan, wouldn't believing that he has an influence over us only give him more power? Why would we want to do that?

Hello Kim,


We are I feel individuals yes but too we are connected to eachother by a higher force. We at times make bad choices and if we at times stop and look at them we often find that other's were there too in influence to us doing them.

I personally feel if there is a good there too must be the opposing force of bad. I see things as a globe shapre like our very Earth. Where there is a Light side and a Dark side. We find our path in the balance in how we SEE both.


Can man be all good ? I wonder on that one. What would there to be learned how would one grow ? Many possitive lessons have come out of very negative times.


Lynn

indigogirl wrote:

I am not a huge fan of talk about sin for one reason. The threat of going to hell if a person does not obide by God's law. i just cant buy into this no matter how hard I try. Going to hell for having an affair? as hurtful and wrong as it is I don't think hell is a just punishment. i just can't buy into this. I feel that this is mans ( churches) way intimidating people into obedience and that is not free will at all. I think that most churches have a skewed way of interpreting information from a compassionate loving source.

Hello


Here I offer a bit from the channelled message I got from Father Paul. When he was asked on Sin, Heaven and Hell.....

"I get asked on Sin and on Heaven and Hell. Lessons is all to keep man on a constant path to do their very best. YES there are lessons after death to come, but you are all God’s Children. Even if you do not see it as God but as something more. It is all Light."
Father Paul



I feel that many things in writtings and teachings were put forth for us to take LESSONS from.


Lynn

a deeply challenging subject matter. as interesting as it is, for myself too much information can at times make for unclear explanations and create confusion.
afterall, isn't that what this is about? raised a Catholic. left the church in my 20's and began my Spiritual
Journey with a Christain non-faith based place of gathering. although not a religous person my two Absolute Truths: God and Jesus. my faith is unyielding. about 15 yrs ago while working with 4 Benetictine Monks, i was honored with the opportunity to study the footsteps Jesus walked on this Earth . it was a moving and inspirational experience.

i would like to share a few lines from a special book of mine - The Sermon on the Mount which i am quite sure you are all familiar with. briefly - The Beatitudes - Blessed are the poor in spirit, for theirs is the kingdom of heaven...Blessed are the meek, for they shall inherit the earth...Blessed are the merciful, for they shall obtain mercy...Blessed are the pure in heart, for they shall see God...Blessed are the peacemakers, for they shall be call the children of God...." Jesus taught "we have free will, but our free will lives in our choice of thoughts...to accept Truth is the greatest first step..."

this i share with you is a deep
spiritual belief that i hold near and dear to my soul and rarely have i
shared with others. i do hope you take it as you wish. it means much
to me to feel safe with all of the insightful, supportive and knowledgeable
fellow human souls.

as to sin, it has been complicated i believe by modern moral societal norms. i do however respect the belief systems of any who share. i do not nor can i ever purport to have answers to the many questions posed here. this is a subject that will always be in discussion.

wow - what a mind inspiring thread. enjoyed every moment. and once again the teacher(s) appears when the pupil is ready.

healing prayers to all...

gratefully,
truthseeker58

Hello


It is indeed.

One might well say I have " Lived in Sin " for some 30 years now. I know well that me Mother in Law so does not approve of a full ring being on me hand. It was not for many year's.

I had full intentions on a Wedding had it all set on its course, things booked and dates set. For a life changing event to befall me. I lost me Dad when I was 25, and as it would have been out of respect that me mate made an honsest woman of me we would have done the vows thing.

It never really mattered to either of us if we wed or not. Figured the money could well be spent in better ways.

One day me mate said to me I bought the FULL set ring its a waste to have it just sit there so I had the two welded together and its been on since. I too have on the other hand on for 25 years together. That was a bit of an issue on what a DATE for that would be. LOL so I said to me mate well what about the DAY ye took me in one's bed. The day I committed to be with ye for life. He said OK can ye look people in the eye and tell them WHY that date.....well yes. With him sitting there one day with me in Church ( Metapysical one ) I announced it was our anniversery and someone made the comment HOW we picked a date. LOL so I told about 50 people how.....and me mate laughed and said well its an easy DATE to remember lol.

Sin can be BLISS as I have never looked.

Lynn

truthseeker58 wrote:

a deeply challenging subject matter. as interesting as it is, for myself too much information can at times make for unclear explanations and create confusion.
afterall, isn't that what this is about? raised a Catholic. left the church in my 20's and began my Spiritual
Journey with a Christain non-faith based place of gathering. although not a religous person my two Absolute Truths: God and Jesus. my faith is unyielding. about 15 yrs ago while working with 4 Benetictine Monks, i was honored with the opportunity to study the footsteps Jesus walked on this Earth . it was a moving and inspirational experience.

i would like to share a few lines from a special book of mine - The Sermon on the Mount which i am quite sure you are all familiar with. briefly - The Beatitudes - Blessed are the poor in spirit, for theirs is the kingdom of heaven...Blessed are the meek, for they shall inherit the earth...Blessed are the merciful, for they shall obtain mercy...Blessed are the pure in heart, for they shall see God...Blessed are the peacemakers, for they shall be call the children of God...." Jesus taught "we have free will, but our free will lives in our choice of thoughts...to accept Truth is the greatest first step..."

this i share with you is a deep
spiritual belief that i hold near and dear to my soul and rarely have i
shared with others. i do hope you take it as you wish. it means much
to me to feel safe with all of the insightful, supportive and knowledgeable
fellow human souls.

as to sin, it has been complicated i believe by modern moral societal norms. i do however respect the belief systems of any who share. i do not nor can i ever purport to have answers to the many questions posed here. this is a subject that will always be in discussion.

wow - what a mind inspiring thread. enjoyed every moment. and once again the teacher(s) appears when the pupil is ready.

healing prayers to all...

gratefully,
truthseeker58

What one has put here is inspiring. I find it so nice that we can share so openly how we are all on a path, but our paths at times be so very different to find really ARE THEY, if one finds understanding with another then our paths have crossed some.

I know well the teacher coming when the pupil be ready. I had a divine intervention by a real life teacher and I was not the best of pupils for him to bless with his time, but still he did.

May he forever be in me heart and may he forever rest in peace.


Lynn

Lynn,

my soul was warmed seeing then reading your inspiring response to my post. having a rough evening. that meant the world to me. the wonders of our individual journeys that require sharing one road at times.

grateful for you..
truthseeker58

I recently sent an email to Jennifer Hoffan (intuitive and channeler for Archangel Uriel) asking if it was true that there is no right or wrong, good or bad in the eyes of Spirit. And if this is so then why is there a need to bring/make heaven on earth? Is heaven neither good or bad like everything on earth? Below is her response. I thought I'd share, pretty good....

Dear Kim

It's hard to stay out of judgment, isn't it? Sin is simply where we separate ourselves from our Source connection and divinity. Any time we are in judgment we are 'sinning'. Its literal translation is 'without' or outside of. The church has created the interpretation of it being this horrible thing that we are in judgment of, cast out and excluded from heaven which is a state of being, not a place. And we are either in heaven or hell, which is also a state of being, all of the time.

Ascension is the process of shifting energy to a different vibration, which is what the entire universe does all of the time. The universe is constantly expanding, which scientists know to be true, not because the existing one is bad but because that is what the universe does. Trees grow new leaves every spring not because there is anything wrong with the old ones (which fall off of some types) but that is just what they do. There is always movement, shedding of the old to embrace the new.

So alignment is the process of releasing those things that are outside of your divine perfection, i.e. where you are 'without' or have sinned so you are wholly in your perfection once again.

Heaven on earth is the process of ascension, it is what the Universe does as it continually expands into new dimensions and vibrations. We are the last planet of this solar system to ascend and when we do the entire solar system ascends.

You're right, there is no good or bad, there is only love and anything that is not of love is a sin or separation. Makes it simple, doesn't it.

Many blessings,
Jennifer and Archangel Uriel
www.urielheals.com

All I can say is I hope that sins as they are written in the bible are not true such as sex before marriage because I am destined to burn lol. I think trying to hold back on our natural human instincts is a man made idea. I generally use my gut to tell me when something is wrong or right and I do stick by some pretty strict morals thanks to this and I intend to bring up my children with those morals. Generally if it feels wrong it probably is and I do hope that the mistakes I have made do not weigh to harshly on my soul in this or the next life. I do my best to be as good of a human being as I can.

Just to add to that I do hope that people who do sin and hurt others get some kind of punishment if you go out to purposely hurt others you deserve it so I expect like evil dictators and stuff to get some kind of pay back for their evil in the next life. I mean true evil does deserve some kind of karmic punishment to balance things out.

libranaster wrote:

Just to add to that I do hope that people who do sin and hurt others get some kind of punishment if you go out to purposely hurt others you deserve it so I expect like evil dictators and stuff to get some kind of pay back for their evil in the next life. I mean true evil does deserve some kind of karmic punishment to balance things out.

But don't you think revenge is sin also ?.