Jesus and judgement

It has for along time been my belief from bible study in the New Testament that jesus ministry was not one of scorn and judgement of sinners, but more of a loving helping hand up and way back to god without keeping the Law 100% . Jesus ministry on one hand was to attempt to show the priests and keepers of the law a beter way to live. Because of their hard hearted stubbornness and corruption and the threat he was I think jesus spoke harshly to them at times for their ways.

Mostly Jesus spent time with outcasts and socially unacceptable people teaching and healing them. When approaching a sinner Jesus offered forgiveness for sins love compassion and kindness.

I stil. cant understand how some people who profess to be Christians feel the need to use the harsh words Jesus used on the Pharisees on normal people. The Jesus I know wouldnt stand on a street corner with a "god hates fags" sign he would be down the road in the homeless shelter fixing up people and helping feed needy people.

Sometimes I wonder about people using harsh words in an effort to advance Jesus ministry, I dont seem right to me. When your actions are speaking loud enough maybe the question comes then and thats when you get the right to share your faith. Maybe its the loving kind words or the unselfish act that earns you the right to share your faith.
Matthew 7:2
For in the same way you judge others, you will be judged, and with the measure you use, it will be measured to you.

WHat do you guys think?

"For in the same way you judge others, you will be judged, and with the measure you use, it will be measured to you."

I think its an universal law, The Law of Attraction.

I really like this post. I am a Christian. I love Jesus more than anything, and I have a real relationship with him.

The way certain Christians act, IMHO, is what turns people off from having anything to do with the real Jesus. For centuries, people have waged wars, suppressed people, and created all sorts of fear...which is exact opposite of the true message of Jesus.

I love learning about other paths, and ' supplementing' my faith, with other values that ring true to me. I catch a lot of steam for this from some of my Christian peers, b but that is OK.

On the same token, it thrills me to see this as a topic here

That is certainly a most applicable quote for this topic: "For in the same way you judge others, you will be judged..."

I think this applies to any spiritual path, not just Christianity. What purpose does it serve to aggressively debate the paths of others? (Ab)using the 'right of free speech' to promote one's own beliefs or sense of morality as better or higher or more 'right' than those of others, I think, shows a lack of compassion that belies any claims of enlightenment on the part of one who uses such crass and self-aggrandizing tactics.

I'm very blessed that my siblings, both Christians, live by Christ's example; like you, Debby, they are both open to discussing the beliefs and experiences of others, and in my sister's case, she's given a lot of flack for what I view as her peaceful and loving attitude. She feels more free to share with me than with any of her Christian friends when it comes to talking about her own spirituality. She receives no argument or judgment from me, and that goes both ways. She's an amazing woman, my sister, and I love talking with her.

And I feel blessed to have the three of you here, as well, sharing your paths without judgment of others. Very refreshing!

Hello

I start with a quote from a favortie book of mine

The Prophet by Kahlil Gibran

"And take with you all men :
For in adoration you cannot fly higer than their hopes nor humbel yourself lower that their despair.
And if you would know Goe be not therefore a solver of riddles.
Rather look aobut you and you shall see Him playing with your children.
And look inot space; you shall see Him walking in the cloud, outstretching His arms in the lightning and decending rain. You shall see Him smilng in flower, tehn rising and waving His hands in the trees."
Page 78/79

While I not be Christian in any way nor follow that path of being Anglacan as I was raised I have never fully turned from the works in the Bible. Its a wonderful text.

If I was to say whom I would see Jesus as I would have to say a mortal man, that had "gifts" that at the times would not have been understood and therefore would have been feared. Even now if he was to walk among us I feel he still would have too much seen power to him to be embraced.

Some it seems almost come into a life before one's time and it is not til after their deaths sadly we see and learn the value in them.

Me Son said to me once when we were watching a show on Jesus's final days, that back in those times one could well have been seen and felt to be dead but not really dead. He said maybe that is why it looked to so many that he risen from the dead. Not saying that is right or wrong but wonderous how a child of 10 see's thngs.

I have really in life tried to take the judgeing of others from me. I hear from many that say "I feel ye might just understand " I have to feel that is what Jesus does. Listens well and does understand. We as man have a long ways to go to get fully there.

Jesus would ever judge as that part of him is past him.


Lynn

I was raised catholic and grew up with serious judgement. Everything was about sacrifice, and staying out of hell. it really turned me off. I remember the day and time when I decided as an adult that I didn't believe in Jesus. Now that I have learned my own spirituality I realized he is real and that my dads warped version of him is what is not real. I'm glad that I am back and can say to him when he gets all condeming, " jesus is about love and acceptance, judging others is not your job" I feel good about knowing this now.

All individuals work at their personal level of understanding in accordance with how much each has been influenced by religious education and/or conditioned by those who profess to be their teachers.

Perhaps the best we can do is to tolerate the intolerance such individuals show to others?

What else could we usefully do?

Mac, I like your idea. tolerance is difficult at times but think its a wonderful way to live peacefully

Hi mac! ltnc

indigogirl wrote:

I was raised catholic and grew up with serious judgement. Everything was about sacrifice, and staying out of hell. it really turned me off. I remember the day and time when I decided as an adult that I didn't believe in Jesus. Now that I have learned my own spirituality I realized he is real and that my dads warped version of him is what is not real. I'm glad that I am back and can say to him when he gets all condeming, " jesus is about love and acceptance, judging others is not your job" I feel good about knowing this now.

It was worth posting my first post for that comment alone

What Jesus tried to do was and still is doing is assist people who want to change their ways and follow his path to union with God.
Its not about the big guilt trip to conform to christianity. Thats not a good plan at all, but may be used by someone with no other knowledge of jesus ways.

Jesus message was more like " I see you carrying that burden of life and guilt around by yourself, let me help you with it. You can put everything you have ever done wrong at the foot of my cross, let me take it from you and in return follow me. As you have received freely give"


Matthew

28 “Come to me, all you who are weary and burdened, and I will give you rest. 29 Take my yoke upon you and learn from me, for I am gentle and humble in heart, and you will find rest for your souls. 30 For my yoke is easy and my burden is light.”

All we were ever asked as followers to do was jump in and lend a helping hand to other people and to anyone who wanted to listen tell them about jesus. Not to attempt to be someones conscience for them. Thats Gods job he can do that.

Debby wrote:

Hi mac! ltnc

Hi Debby - I'm usually around but now with a different agenda - more viewing, less writing, more thinking...

Chris I love your signature. " you dont have a soul you are a soul; you have a body" that really speaks to me on so many levels. The other thing that used to really get me was absolute disregard for other religions, like buddhism. Through buddhism I have learned how to quiet myself and find the mixture between the two religions really work for me. The philosiphy of buddhism has helped me not pulled me away from the teachings of christ. Thats the one thing I wish is for people to love and accept others.

[quote="chris"]

indigogirl wrote:

Jesus message was more like " I see you carrying that burden of life and guilt around by yourself, let me help you with it. You can put everything you have ever done wrong at the foot of my cross, let me take it from you and in return follow me. As you have received freely give"

Ok, this has always been an interesting visual to me. Dumping all our "stuff" at Jesus's feet. One - I'm not sure HOW to like hand over all my pains to Jesus to take care of and Two - what on earth does he DO with our crap after we give it to Him? What a job! I hate suffering more than anything and Jesus seems to love it, can't get enough so asks for all of ours?

You all MUST NOTE I am NOT in ANY way mocking or trying to disrespect Jesus by saying any of this. I LOVE Jesus, have recieved His healing twice, wear him round my neck every day but he still remains such a mystery to me. I mean, I believe in other live forms in other galaxies far far away and believe Jesus has visited those planets too (where and if necessary) only to go through everything He did here? Can you even imagine it? How? Why?
I'm GRATEFUL but I am trying to understand how Jesus has this energy that somehow is able to like inhilate our bad karma. Such a puzzle.

good questions. I can't answer any of them. To tell you the truth I dont remember writing what's posted. I think it may have been a channeling thing. This happens to me frequently.

Good questions to ponder.

lol I didn't writing that. I think Chris wrote it. Thats why I didn't remember.
Although I still channel stuff frequently that was not one of them.

hahaha too funny

[quote="kimcreative"]

chris wrote:

indigogirl wrote:

Jesus message was more like " I see you carrying that burden of life and guilt around by yourself, let me help you with it. You can put everything you have ever done wrong at the foot of my cross, let me take it from you and in return follow me. As you have received freely give"

Ok, this has always been an interesting visual to me. Dumping all our "stuff" at Jesus's feet. One - I'm not sure HOW to like hand over all my pains to Jesus to take care of and Two - what on earth does he DO with our crap after we give it to Him? What a job! I hate suffering more than anything and Jesus seems to love it, can't get enough so asks for all of ours?

You all MUST NOTE I am NOT in ANY way mocking or trying to disrespect Jesus by saying any of this. I LOVE Jesus, have recieved His healing twice, wear him round my neck every day but he still remains such a mystery to me. I mean, I believe in other live forms in other galaxies far far away and believe Jesus has visited those planets too (where and if necessary) only to go through everything He did here? Can you even imagine it? How? Why?
I'm GRATEFUL but I am trying to understand how Jesus has this energy that somehow is able to like inhilate our bad karma. Such a puzzle.

I think you quoted indigo girl quoting me

I'll try to answer your question but iam going to have to be evangelical to explain it.

Dumping everything at Jesus feet is figurative analogy for a more complex thing.

If one chooses to be a follower of Christ and surrender your life to him the guilt of sin is dealt with for everyone at his death on the cross no exceptions for everyone willing to believe and follow.

Christ died in our place to pay the price for the sins that separate us from God. Apparently when jesus died on the cross he went to hell and suffered for all the sins of the people he died for.
My understanding of the bible is that onlya life led without committing a sin would qualify you for eternal life with god. No good works will fix that up correcting things done wrong ( sin).

By Jesus sacrifice of himself in a loving act for us, he cared enough to take our place so we could be with him eternally. To accept this we believe in this and follow giving up any ways we have that would offend God, like say adultery, stealing, slander ( sin), we attempt to lead anew life following jesus.

when I did this it was like the weight of the world come off my shoulders and this promise occurred to me and I felt it.

"As far as the east is from the west,
so far has he removed our transgressions from us."
Psalm 103:12

All the things I had done wrong I felt for the first time in my life were put right and I felt acceptable to god. I had prayed the sinners prayer (not in bible) and asked forgiveness. An inner void of loneliness left me.

Something fantastic entered me that 20 years later I still tell of it because it hasn't left me. When I became a Christian via forgiveness of sin and belief in jesus as saviour the holy spirit entered me and my body powerfully and changed my life. I was like on a high for months after. just like the other supernatural stuff we talk about here it is real too.

That was how I was simplifying putting everything at Jesus feet Kim.

If it comes on you you will never forget it strange things happen people faint and tears come out of them and other things because of the intense joy. It is an amazing event. Just as I know other things we talk of here are real this is too and in most ways my favorite experience ever spiritually.

Its like a washing clean of your spirit and getting a fresh start in life through belief alone and promise to follow. It does work somehow.

the thing about it is people think you have to be good to become Christian.. no not true

One does not take a bath to have a shower, one gets into the shower and cleans up in it. Same with following Jesus.

I cant help but tell of it it changed my life Just as someone told me so do I now tell it.....






Ps Indigo thats my version of channelling just writing what comes, hopefully it is right for someone.

Ah, I appreciate you trying to explain this all to me Chris but as crystal clear Jesus is to you, He still remains much a big mystery to me. I guess I'm trying to understand the metaphysics of Jesus because I know there is one, I just can't quite make sense of it all yet. Something about the energy of love, how love and acceptance ends karmic cycles, how the energy of love wipes out the lower vibrations of what some might define as sin.

[quote="chris"]
If one chooses to be a follower of Christ and surrender your life to him the guilt of sin is dealt with for everyone at his death on the cross no exceptions for everyone willing to believe and follow.

Christ died in our place to pay the price for the sins that separate us from God. Again, I am trying to understand this from a metaphysical point of view. Okay, so lets say forgivness (Jesus) cancels karmic cycles. That I'm on board with. But how does the forgiveness of one man cancel out the karmic cycles for all mankind? It's all this "Jesus paid the price for our sins" thing that is throwing me off.


Apparently when jesus died on the cross he went to hell and suffered for all the sins of the people he died for.
My understanding of the bible is that only a life led without committing a sin would qualify you for eternal life with god. No good works will fix that up correcting things done wrong (sin). "Sin" is a tricky word. I'm not sure I believe sin is at all what we think it is. My definition of what sin is at this time is anything that is a vibration that is less than God the Source. Or on a more personal level sin is nothing more than lessons for the learning, something we need to experience to be seperate from God as well as learn from to return to God. Well, that would pretty much be everything I think. But everything outside of God Himself is an expression of God, God experiencing Himself (through us) and lessons learned maybe? Truthfully, Im not sure the energy creation can exist at all without "sin".

As for Hell, thats another mystery. I believe it exists but like sin (and even Jesus) think it is something widely misunderstood, just can't place it.


Something fantastic entered me that 20 years later I still tell of it because it hasn't left me. When I became a Christian via forgiveness of sin and belief in jesus as saviour the holy spirit entered me and my body powerfully and changed my life. I was like on a high for months after. just like the other supernatural stuff we talk about here it is real too.

That was how I was simplifying putting everything at Jesus feet Kim.

If it comes on you you will never forget it strange things happen people faint and tears come out of them and other things because of the intense joy. It is an amazing event. Just as I know other things we talk of here are real this is too and in most ways my favorite experience ever spiritually.

Yes, I know what you mean because I too have experienced a number of close encounters with Spirit that i will never forget including being blessed by the Holy Spirit. One of the reasons why I really think most of us got the concept of "sin" wrong is where I was when the Holy Spirit came to me. I spent the night with a married man when it came! Thats like the LAST place I ever thought I'd see the light of God. But to be fair, I didnt feel like I was sinning at all with this man, in fact I know I was clearly led to him by Spirit but thats a whole another story. Point Im trying to make is I'm not sure that it's even our place to define what sin is because to define it is to judge it and I think, I THINK ultimately only God Himself can make that definition. I just dont know. Just throwing all my thoughts on the matter out there.

Its like a washing clean of your spirit and getting a fresh start in life through belief alone and promise to follow. It does work somehow.
Yes, I agree. The power of love, faith, forgiveness and acceptance - all things taught by Jesus, does this and I too have experienced this on some levels.

the thing about it is people think you have to be good to become Christian.. no not true Yes, I totally agree with this statement

One does not take a bath to have a shower, one gets into the shower and cleans up in it. Same with following Jesus.

I cant help but tell of it it changed my life Just as someone told me so do I now tell it.....

omg jesus went to hell, really?
harsh treatment from god isnt it?

twinks wrote:

omg jesus went to hell, really?
harsh treatment from god isnt it?

IT says something like that in the apostles creed, it may or may not be true its just something I was taught at a sermon at church.

This is true for sure what ever was going to happen to him made him fear so much he sweated blood before it so it must have been really bad thing he had to go through.

Lukes gospel ch 22

d He came out and proceeded as was His custom to the Mount of Olives; and the disciples also followed Him.

40When He arrived at the place, He said to them, "Pray that you may not enter into temptation."

41And He withdrew from them about a stone's throw, and He knelt down and began to pray,

42saying, "Father, if You are willing, remove this cup from Me; yet not My will, but Yours be done."

43Now an angel from heaven appeared to Him, strengthening Him.

44And being in agony He was praying very fervently; and His sweat became like drops of blood, falling down upon the ground.

i think the sweating blood thing is an actual phenomena that can happen when a body is under tremendous stress. beng cruicified certainly accounts for that.

Yes, i too know of the debate if Jesus went to hell or not. How could a man of such love, the son of God himself, go to hell? Maybe his death WAS the hell he visited. Or maybe he went to hell
(whatever that is) to rescue/release a bunch of souls that couldnt have been rescued before? One hears how upon His death, the gates of heaven opened. My thinking is they were closed before that? Is there truth to any of this?
Or has something been forgotten, lost or misinterpretted?

where it comes from is the apostles creed and one theory is it might have been something a translator wrote attempting to be a scribe as his interpretation. this mention of going to hell is only written in the apostles creed.

The Jesus I know and love also has a fiery little temper at times also...remember the fit he threw at the temple at the money changers!!!
He mostly is about love, understanding, patience, giving of oneself etc
but he will stand up and take account to injustices as well.

42saying, "Father, if You are willing, remove this cup from Me; yet not My will, but Yours be done."
To me all scripture is about how one interprets it. I also belive we interpret scripture the way we as individuals are meant to see and value the words. To me the biblical meaning of the cup is the passing between all and sharing. It is the cup of lifes blood, the sharing of life between us all. the essence of we are all one. it to me is him asking God to elevate him above the rest of the human world energies so he would not feel so much of the agony and pain he had foresseen in his next few days. Please remember he was having the HUMAN expereince even though extremely gifted at that time. He would feel pain and agony above anything you can imagine. Why woudl he do what any human would do and ask God to help him or ease his burdeon.

44And being in agony He was praying very fervently; and His sweat became like drops of blood, falling down upon the ground.

What is written is in the bible is only part of what he actually endured. It does not actually say he sweated blood.. IT says it was LIKE HOW blood drops.

omg jesus went to hell, really?
harsh treatment from god isnt it?

This again falls under how do you define Hell. there is one part of me who has seen the underworld and beleives it exists. Or does it . Or is it a place my consciousness has created to acknowledge what the bible and preachers preach as hell. Now I do beleieve there is a plane of existance for twisted energy beings. Some never get totally untwisted and then are zapped back to source.
But the other part of me says Hell is really our own self loathing as in remorse, self condemnations, guilt etc.

But also as a essence of God would Jeus/christed energy not have the ability to go as above so below. Not all can go anywhere in the universes they wish but I am sure Christed energies are allowed. Do you not beleive Jesus would have had and still have the ability to enter the Hell kingdom if it exists to retrieve one of his flock..

It is all about how you interpret scriptures.

The most important thing to remember is if any of us find ourselves in hell, in this life or the next, all one has to do is say "Jesus" and you're like outta there. Its the magic word.

wow, this conversation just goes to show me that I did not listen to a thing my dad said, I have never heard that jesus went to hell.
I have a question. To the best of my knowledge romans catholics do not believe in karma and past lives. I for one believe in both. I have recalled some past lives therefore I know it is real. So if one believes in jesus can one believe in Karma and past lives? I believe that the life and death of jesus is true but I believe he was guided by spirit to walk his path and bring awareness to humanity. I also believe that Spirit is not jesus does any of this make sense? I wish I could explain better but i think i am still trying to understand it myself.

Ok, I grew up Catholic but after all that I have experienced presonally...now totally believe in karma and past lives. I believe Jesus was all about karma, and that his whole message of love...love, acceptance, forgiveness is the energy that ends karmic cycles. And it's not enough to forgive others, we must forgive ourselves. We need to forgive everyone and ourselves for everything. Apply love and forgiveness to all things even if we do not understand it. So important.